Join Skeptic North contributors and supporters as we see how deep the rabbit hole goes at the Whole Wallet Life Expo next Sunday, November 28 in Toronto.
Last year several Skeptic North bloggers visited the alternative reality that is the Whole Life Expo, where they encountered all kinds of fantastic devices, treatments and cures. The Expo touts itself as Canada’s largest showcase of natural health and green living, so this year we’re going to see what’s new (and not so new) in the “alternative” world. We bloggers call this a “target rich” environment for ideas.
A quick glance at the exhibitors shows that EMF “protection” is the latest fad, with several manufacturers offering gadgets to measure EMFs and protect you. Ear candling will likely be offered as it was last year (although ear candles are banned for sale in Canada) and Hulda Clarke remedies will be there (Hulda had the cure for all diseases except her own). You may even find a warmish box that suits your fancy, get your brain-fog treated, or discover some magical water for sale.
The Expo is at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre and runs from 10am till 6pm on Sunday. Tickets can be purchased at the door ($8 for a weekend exhibit pass).
We’ll be meeting at 10am at the base of the statue in front of Union Station, which is at 65 Front Street West across from the Fairmont Royal York Hotel.
Drop us a comment so we know you’ll be there!
Damn, wish I could be there. Looks like fun, in that “I feel like watching a horror movie” kinda way.
Hello Skeptics,
We welcome your skepticism, and would hope that the same skepticism extends to the medical practices, corporations, and environment-destroying industries that are causing so much harm.
(Or does your skepticism only apply to nature’s pharmacy?)
New research is released every day about the tremendous healing power of alternative medicine. I, for one, am proud to be a part of this important movement. Happy to have you join us!
Julia Woodford
Whole Life Expo
Hi Julia. I can only speak for myself, but I agree that alternative medicine isn’t the only area deserving of skepticism. But just because mainstream medicine has its issues (I don’t know anyone who would say otherwise), that doesn’t mean that scientifically implausible treatments are valid.
I recommend you check out Ben Goldacre’s book Bad Science, he gives a healthy dose of skepticism to both Big Pharma and Big Natural alike. I think you’d enjoy it.
I am proud to be a supporter as well….as I have seen wonderful things acheived by alternative products…to bad for close minedness and to sheer blindness
My mind is open to all reasonable evidence. That’s why Willow bark is now medicine called Aspirin and Netti pots are considered a reasonable alternative to decongestants. Formerly considered “alternative” these treatments stood the test of objective science and passed. Anything that can do the same is more than welcome in standard health care.
I’m not sure if I can go or not… I don’t enjoy laughing right in someone’s face…
“Nature’s Pharmacy”? Yeah, I’ll keep my eye out for you if I do make it down, Julia.
Hey guys, I’m all for a healthy dose of skepticism. I wouldn’t have dived into the health world if I didn’t first become skeptical and suspicious about the chemicals in my laundry detergent giving me hives and allergies. And the ‘healhy’ dairy products that were giving me constipation and eczema. I think skepticism leads to important new insights as long as it’s intelligent and unbiased. No doubt some aspects of the natural health industry are more hype than helpful. But we make an effort to screen out exhibitors who we feel are lacking in integrity, so the folks accepted to exhibit there have gone through an approval process. At any rate, skepticism is healthy. So y’all are already part of the health movement, like it or not.
Peanuts give some people hives too. Are you skeptical of peanuts?
Recent research on peanuts has found that they contain an aflatoxin that can cause liver cancer. So yes, I’m skeptical of health benefits claimed for peanuts. Better to stick with almonds or walnuts which have high levels of brain nourishing essential fatty acids. After all, every skeptic worth their salt needs a good brain.
But aren’t peanuts all natural? Are you saying that natural does not necessarily mean safe or healthy?
Julia,
If peanuts can cause liver cancer, a reduction in consumption patterns and amounts should result in a reduction of liver cancer rates.
Even if this is shown, its practical meaning is weighed by the size of the effect (what percentage of liver cancers do peanuts account for?) If this number is small, the relative risk of peanut consumption is also small. In order for it to be a better idea to avoid peanuts than to consume them the cancer causing potential of peanuts has to be very high indeed, since there are known other causes of liver cancer (hepatits, alcohol abuse).
I doubt that increasing my almond and/or walnut intake would have made it any easier to have reasoned as I have above. Refining my critical thinking skills is certainly far more efficient. I will perhaps see you at your expo. Bring your thinking cap. You will need it.
Endemic contamination of peanuts by aflotoxin seems to be an issue in Africa, due to poor storage practices. I don’t know the degree of contamination in North America, but would presume it would be less.
In terms of relative risk, the data I’ve seen indicates little statistical significance to the results correlating peanut consumption to liver cancer.
In terms of absolute risk, even wild-ass extrapolations from animal trials involving force-fed rats amount to 158 cases per year in the U.S.. That’s from a 35 year-old study, however, so take it with a grain of salt.
Peanut butter is tested for aflotoxin contamination, and actual levels are typically well below FDA exposure limits, which I believe is 20 parts per billion for human consumption.
Simply eschewing peanuts and peanut butter would does not avoid aflotoxin. It is also present in cereals, including maize, rice, and wheat, other oilseeds, including soybeans, and sunflower, spices, including chili peppers, black pepper, and ginger, and tree nuts, including almonds, pistachio nuts, walnuts, coconuts and brazil nuts.
Or, as the immortal Joe Jackson put it “Everything gives you cancer.”
Julia: Does your exhibitor screening process exclude the sale of products that have been deemed illegal in Canada?
I’ll be there again this year….this time with great recording devices! Some of the things that were said and sold last year had to be seen and heard to be believed.
My favourite example was the experimental eye treatment that they claimed you would never need to wear glasses ever again, and the two guys working the booth BOTH had glasses on.
I’m not certain many of the booth operators are prepared for “a healthy dose of skepticism,” but knowing what to expect this time around, I look forward to administering it.
Wow, this is terrific! Great debate on all things natural and holistic. I love it. I don’t care what the statistics are for how many people do or don’t get liver cancer directly from peanuts. When a reputable American oncologist says aflatoxins contribute to liver cancer, it’s bye bye peanuts for me. It’s all about “toxic load”. If you have 100 small exposures to carcinogens in a day, that adds up to a hefty load of crap that the liver has to deal with. Peanut butter – by the way, is worse. First they remove the ‘good’ peanut oil, then they add in salt, sugar, and GMO canola oil. Yuck. FDA exposure limits are influenced by corporate lobbyists, so are not a reliable barometer of what’s really safe. Cheers.
“First they remove the ‘good’ peanut oil, then they add in salt, sugar, and GMO canola oil.”
Have you never heard of natural peanut butter? The kind without sugar, salt, canola oil, or anything whatsoever but peanuts? You know, the kind with lots and lots of peanut oil floating on the top? I’ve been eating that for more than 30 years now. It’s available everywhere; literally everywhere.
“I don’t care what the statistics are for how many people do or don’t get liver cancer directly from peanuts.”
This statement scares me. If the facts and evidence either way don’t matter at all to you, the having a discussion with you about it becomes meaningless, and proves you are not skeptical in the least. A true skeptic follows the evidence, no matter where it leads.
BTW, ironically, I am typing this while eating peanut butter.
And yes, our screening process does exclude the sale of products that have been deemed illegal in Canada. So if we’ve missed something, clue us in. We like hard research, not hearsay or gossip.
I see that the exhibitor list includes a company called Rainbow Star offering ear candles again, just as they did in 2009. Health Canada has made the following statement on ear candles:
Some promoters try to get around Health Canada’s Medical Devices Regulations by advertising that ear candles are “for entertainment purposes only”. However, Health Canada maintains that these people are selling the product illegally, for medical purposes, as there is no other reasonable use for ear candles.
See: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/med/ear-oreille-eng.php
What action will you be taking to ensure the Whole Health Expo respects federal Medical Devices regulations?
As far as I know, Rainbow Star is not selling ear candles. They are using them to clear the guck out of people’s ears. (Yuck.) On the other hand, what SHOULD be illegal in Canada is all water sold in plastic bottles, since BPA is now a registered carcinogen. And all corn sprayed with atrazine, since it’s a proven endocrine disruptor (turns male frogs into females).
Sheesh. Ear Candles? Who cares. I’d like to see y’all turn your considerable intelligence toward something that really matters – stopping the massive industrial contamination of our food, air, and water, which is causing cancer rates to skyrocket. This is the real crime of the century.
So your response to an illegal and potentially harmful product being sold is “who cares”?
Good to know who we’re dealing with, at least.
Julia,
“Who cares”? How is the use of a product that is illegal to sell in Canada – because it is ineffective and potentially dangerous – acceptable? How could any consumer not care about that?
So much for being willing to listen and do something about illegal merchandise. I wonder what else is hiding in those booths that is illegal but the organizers thought “who cares” because BPA is the REAL problem?
Wow, Julia. I think you should take a look at http://whatstheharm.net/earcandling.html for some examples of how people have been harmed by ear candling, which is the very reason why they are now banned for sale in Canada. There is no evidence that ear candles do anything beneficial, yet there is a significant risk of burns and other injuries.
Ear candles do more harm than good and their sale is illegal. The response should not be “who cares?” it should be “illegal is illegal and such items have no place at the Whole Life Expo”, assuming the Expo is at all interested in responsibility. Directly sold or not, these items are dangerous.
Yeah, Julia. I have to echo the words of the other commenters in here. You said that you filter out anything illegal. When something that is illegal was pointed out to you, you flippantly brushed it aside and tried to divert the attention away to something else.
Not very encouraging, I’m afraid.
While everyone is raking you over the coals for your baffling disregard for your visitors’ safety by ignoring the dangers of ear candling, I wanted to know about your cancer claim: “which is causing cancer rates to skyrocket.”
I wasn’t aware that cancer rates are skyrocketing, not when you control for age groups. More people are getting cancer, but I thought it was due to more people reaching their elder years which increases their chance of getting cancer.
Jon, you’re right. Controlling for age, cancer incidence is relatively stable. Here are the Canadian statistics, from the Canadian Cancer Society. The solid line is the age-standardized incidence rates. The greater numbers of cancer cases overall is because the Canadian population is growing and aging.
Julia,
For the record, while I am no big fan of bottled water (I find it a huge waste of money), the plastic used is PETE. There are no traces of BPA anywhere in bottled water.
BPA was found in hard clear plastics used for reusable water bottles, baby bottles, etc. Those are no longer for sale in Canada.
@ Julia
“And yes, our screening process does exclude the sale of products that have been deemed illegal in Canada. So if we’ve missed something, clue us in. We like hard research, not hearsay or gossip.”
And then your reaction is to say that they are not selling the candles they are just cleaning the gunk out of people’s ears! Does that not amount to use of an illegal medical device? How do you expect me to take you seriously with that type of response.
The change of topic is very unresponsive.
“I don’t care what the statistics are for how many people do or don’t get liver cancer directly from peanuts.” — Woodford.
Good, good. Nothing like ignoring facts and figures to carry the bright and shiney torch of personal bias, financial gain, and wooish belief systems. Yummy!
“And yes, our screening process does exclude the sale of products that have been deemed illegal in Canada.” — Woodford.
… followed by:
“Therefore, the sale of this product for therapeutic purposes in Canada is illegal.” — Health Canada.
… followed by:
“Sheesh. Ear Candles? Who cares.” — Woodford.
Like Mitchell Gerskup says: “Good to know who we’re dealing with, at least.”
“As far as I know, Rainbow Star is not selling ear candles. They are using them to clear the guck out of people’s ears. (Yuck.)”
Except that this has been demonstrated not to work:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/candling.html
Ear candles produce the same ‘gunk’ whether you burn them in your ear or in an ashtray.
Guys, do you know that peanuts boost estrogen levels in men? You might want to cut back on your peanut consumption as a result.
I was at the booth with the contact lens guys. Only one of the men wore glasses. We inquired about the treatments and they were forthright in telling us that the lens were only effect for those of us with a prescription of 200 or less. Up to 400 it was iffy and dependent on our age. The man with the glasses had a prescription close to 700 and like those of us inquiring he told us the treatment was not for us.
I guess you did not talk to them.
Firstly, we do not knowingly allow products into the show that are illegal for sale in Canada. In fact beeswax candles are not for sale at the Expo. Secondly, while it’s true that ear candling has its critics, it’s also true that Rainbow Star has a huge following of fans who attend their booth every year because they like the candling treatment and feel they benefit from it. My comment – “Who Cares?” about beeswax candles – was stated in the context of the much larger issues facing humanity, issues which are much more worthy of your skepticism than candles. If you choose to quote me out of context, well, that suggests your agenda may be more about slamming me than getting at the truth of what’s important to public health going forward.
“Firstly, we do not knowingly allow products into the show that are illegal for sale in Canada. In fact beeswax candles are not for sale at the Expo.”
Well, there were these, last year:
And there was this:
Resulting in this:
And in case there’s any doubt:
…so I don’t know who you think you’re trying to fool.
Julia, I respect the fact that you have different priorities, but for some people, customers of ear candling being burned or otherwise harmed is definitely a concern.
People can feel better for lots of reasons that don’t necessarily have anything to do with the treatment they just had, and that goes for any form of medicine. That’s why there are scientific methods like randomized controlled trials to make sure that medicinal effects are objective and people aren’t wasting money that could be better spent on something else.
Also, concern about ear candling isn’t mutually exclusive from other issues. The environment and general health are also very important to me, but I require evidence before accepting claims that, for example, cancer rates are “skyrocketing”.
“Firstly, we do not knowingly allow products into the show that are illegal for sale in Canada” I appreciate that honest stance.
But you should know that ignorance of the law is not an excuse, and because Rainbow Star has been shown to sell these harmful products, you, as the exhibitor may be financially and legally on the hook for any injuries and/or official complaints (made through Health Canada, or the venue owners) resulting thereof.
I think you might want to cover yourself a little bit and bar this product from the expo, lest this be the year that someone gets hurt and it is attributable to the ear candling they receive there. Or some complaints might get filed and you (if indeed your are one of the organizers, forgive my conceit if I am incorrect) may get into a bit of trouble.
I promise you that if I see them for sale at the expo, I will register a complaint with Health Canada, and I will inform the venue ownership. I would act similarly if I had seen anyone break the law, as I don’t choose which laws to obey and which to put into some larger context for the purposes of illegality.
@ Julia, are you suggesting that beeswax candles are illegal in Canada?
Woops, I should have said we don’t have ear candles for sale, not beeswax candles. Beeswax is actually my favourite candle. As to your photos of candles for sale last year, wow, I am impressed by your undercover journalism. So let me clarify by saying – now that I’m aware of the issues surrounding the legality of ear candles, there certainly will not be any for sale this year. And thank you for bringing this to my attention. As to the potential for harm from ear candling, we take visitor complaints very seriously. So if someone had been burned or harmed in any way by this therapy in the past, I would have expected to receive complaints. Thus far, we have not received a single complaint about ear candling in the 23 years that we have been running the show.
You’re welcome. Thank you for the straight-forward response.
Julia,
Your response to this issue is very appreciated.
Please post a copy of the letter that you have sent to Rainbow Star (Booth 94) and Siatsu by Sher Energy Healing Centre (Booth 121 and 122A) informing them that they are not to offer ear candles for any purpose? Also, can you post a notice of this change on your website in a prominent place (your home page)? It would also be helpful if you have notices posted at the venue, so that your patrons know of the change and the reason for it. Finally, as a further measure, can you post a copy of the letter that you sent to all exhibitors informing them of the policy? There may be cases in which exhibitors offer these products but have not informed the organizers.
I think that these actions would cover you nicely and will go a long way to show that you are serious about following all laws, rules and regulations that you are obligated to follow.
To summarize, copies of the two letters that you have sent to exhibitors, a notice posted on your website, and obvious notices displayed at the convention centre.
I will follow up with you if you have not followed through by 4pm on Friday, November 26th, which is the opening time posted for the show.
Julia, I love your straight forward tenacious responses to these individuals who obviously avoid the main issues you’ve pointed out (ie: the toxification of humanity). I applaud your courage for walking into this den of persons who make themselves out to be public defenders, who have joined forces in a Gestapo-like manner with Health Canada, by painting the natural product industry as a predator, whilst the real scientific criminals, Big Pharma and Monsanto, continue to get away with their crimes and hold their dominance over Government, media, and commercial industry.
This whole site appears biased against the natural product industry along with dictatorial communist and corrupt Hell-th Canada.
Apparently you’ve missed the several posts of ours criticizing Health Canada for being overly accommodating to alternative medicine. So I’m not sure which part of your hyperbole is more wrong…
And AGAIN I’ll point out that concern for one issue doesn’t mean we don’t have concern for other issues – assuming they are real issues, of course (i.e., backed up with evidence). How a completely reasonable requirement of evidence makes us the Gestapo is beyond me. But I suppose it’s easier to make us into evil demons than have a rational discussion that might ask you to question some of your assumptions.
The “toxification of humanity” seems to be having an interesting effect:
Julia or Peter,
Will Monsanto or Big Pharma have booths at the Whole Life Expo? They certainly are guilty of some despicable practices (as are many industries) but unless they are going to be represented at the Whole Life Expo I don’t see why that is a matter for discussion in this thread. Seems more like a tactic to divert scrutiny away from the potentially questionable practices of certain snake-oil hustlers.
Wow.
First of all, thanks for the Godwin. We’re like the Gestapo…because we write on a blog. Remarkable…even for the internet.
Second of all, we’ve been very critical of Health Canada. See?
You’re choosing which laws are okay to obey and which ones need to be dismissed and/or ignored. You must have a lot of electoral support and ethical superiority to make such judgments. I vote for you! Because you conflate fascism and communism in the same thought! It takes guts to do that. Brains, no. Guts, yes.
P.S.
65 words in one sentence? Tsk. Tsk. While I do object your associating me with the Gestapo, I nonetheless think with you I might have to be a GRAMMAR Nazi!
“…while it’s true that ear candling has its critics, it’s also true that Rainbow Star has a huge following of fans who attend their booth every year because they like the candling treatment and feel they benefit from it.”
So regardless of well-founded and documented concerns about safety and effectiveness it’s business as usual as long as there are suckers willing to pay?
Not trying to put words in your mouth, just looking for clarification.
Skeptics North authors and followers,
From my brief time reviewing this site it is evident you people have way too much time on your hands…and you should all really get a legitimate hobby. A field trip to the Whole Life Expo?…..Really????
Well, in my spare time, I play music, read, and write. I’m lucky enough to have a job (teaching music) where I get to combine my hobby as my profession. In my younger days I played baseball, jogged and exercised regularly….it was very fun.
Thank you for taking the time to tell us all how little you think of how we spend our own free time (on a Sunday, I might add). I wonder if you express your disdain to the other people attending this event.
“Thank you for taking the time to tell us all how little you think of how we spend our own free time (on a Sunday, I might add).”
!?!
Good heavens-to-Betsy, what time zone do you live in now?
Oh I love this argument. People who do anything that someone in particular finds useless have “too much time on their hands” and just shouldn’t do it. Just so we know in the future and can avoid these little embarrassments, please provide a list of official, Robin-approved hobbies and we’ll be sure to stick to those from now on.
I hope that list doesn’t include ear candling.
I like to call this the “Yellingist Grandpa Argument”.
GET OUT AND GET A JOB, YA BUM! is what it boils down to.
“I hope that list doesn’t include ear candling.”
Indeed!
And, ooh heaven (metaphorically speaking) forbid, what about (ssshhh) Masturbation!?! Or, um, reading books?!? Or, ouch, breathing?!? … and, or, um….
Great googley moogley, everything!
I would truly love to see your collective thoughts put to good use and fight why our school systems are not putting better foods in the schools for our youth, or maybe to fight the government on Hydro and its increases, or why Ritalin in on the rise with children. or Autism for that matter…who put you people in charge of our freedom of choice, what are you providing the universe with as a whole ….negativity
sarcasm and judgement, what are you proving with this, what are you helping….try fighting GMO, because the last time I looked we were not Genetically modified so why are we eating foods that are? Go stand outside the manufacturing companies and fight that. Do something positive like that and more would join your cause.
Christine,
Everyone has the freedom to choose on the basis of misinformation and irrationality. They don’t necessarily have freedom from the consequences of the choices that they make. You have the freedom to choose an ineffective cancer treatment. You’re not free to choose whether or not it works.
Further, a person or organization doesn’t have the freedom to make whatever health claim they want without accepting responsibility for that claim. People pointing out that a claim is false is a natural consequence of making a false claim.
Shame on you for expending your energy negativly on people who choose
the alternative route..Don’t you think after Thalidomide(remember the flipper arms) the government said that was safe for pregnant women, or Phen Phen, the government said that was safe..what about agent orange that the government told all the air pilots was safe..and you people are worried about ear candling. Is there fear to take your own health in your hands? or are you in the pharmaceutical pocket…And yes companies should be held responsable,pharmaceutials mostly
In other words, you want other people to fight your battles? Or is it that you think think there are only a small number of issues that anyone should care about?
I could lay shame on you for not admonishing every homeopath who sells diluted crushed duck liver or rabbit vagina as cures for cancer.
When you can point out how thalidomide, Phen Phen and agent orange are exactly the same as my asthma medication, my anti inflammatories, or my dad’s beta blockers, I’ll gladly concede that they should be taken off the markets.
However, if all you have to appeal to are anti-government and anti-corporate conspiracy theories, sans any evidence whatsoever, move along.
If I’m in the pharmaceutical pocket my cheques are severely overdue.
One thing I’ve always wondered about ear candles. They always demonstrate their “efficacy” by cutting them open after the procedure and showing you what they magically extracted from your ear.
Residue that almost is certainly just from the candle itself. Has anyone ever just burned one in a jar and shown that it’s still able to extract all that gunk out of your ears from across the room?
I suppose to the believers (i.e. in-duh-viduals), that would simply prove how truly magical they really are. I’m still curious, though.
“Residue that almost is certainly just from the candle itself. Has anyone ever just burned one in a jar and shown that it’s still able to extract all that gunk out of your ears from across the room?”
Yes.
And unless I am completely mistaken, the originator, or inventor, or whatever of the product actually recanted and admitted creating a fraudulent piece of junk purely for the purpose of making a profit. I am fairly sure that I read that in a Skeptic (or perhaps Skeptical Inquirer) magazine several years ago.
Al,
There was an article in Skeptical Inquirer on this back in 2000. It’s called “On ear cones and candles” (Vol. 24, Issue 5). The authors did something similar to what you mentioned. They tested out a lighted ear candle above a kitchen counter, without inserting it into anyone’s ear. And (surprise!) they found “the same amount and kind of waxy residue” resulted as when they had tested one of the candles in someone’s ear.
Not only are there plenty of examples of this being done by skeptical experimenters but it seems such a simple and obvious test that you have to wonder how and why the purveyors this nonsense haven’t either heard of such tests and/or done it themselves. That being the case it is hard to believe they don’t know damn-well they are selling ineffective and dangerous snake-oil for profit. That’s the main reason I won’t be attending the Whole Life Expo – I don’t think I can contain my contempt for the lying scam artists at many of the booths.
“…please get your father on CO Q10 as a bata blocker…”
A bata blocker? So, you think he has a problem with his shoes?
“…have you ever heard of anyone dying from taking rosemary, sage, Vit D any other herbs…”
People can die from vitamin A poisoning. And what do you mean by ‘herbs’? It’s a catch-all term that can be used to describe any plant used in any way as a food, and some can be toxic in large amounts. Other foods that are no problem for most people can cause deadly allergic reactions in others. Natural doesn’t automatically mean safe.
Ooh, they have a facebook site. This could be fun. For a while…
http://www.facebook.com/search.php?q=whole%20life%20expo%20toronto&init=quick&tas=0.08862227406225831#!/WholeLifeExpo?v=wall
Wow, this thread is better than T.V.!
regarding the recent research showing peanuts contain an aflatoxin and that it is:
Better to stick with almonds or walnuts which have high levels of brain nourishing essential fatty acids. After all, every skeptic worth their salt needs a good brain.
Aflatoxins were identified in peanut meal fed to turkeys in 1961. Acute aflatoxicosis by itself isn’t pretty. The cancer link was identified in 1988.
The toxin is a naturally occurring fungus that unsurprisingly prefers warm and wet conditions for it to flourish on a number of crops – often in the field, prior to harvest:
milk, cheese, corn, peanuts, cottonseed, nuts, almonds, figs, spices, and a variety of other foods and feeds
Of course, improper storage may also cause an outbreak among almonds even.
What are the main reasons this fungal illness spreads among people who eat almonds?:
limited availability of food, environmental conditions that favor fungal development in crops and commodities, and lack of regulatory systems for aflatoxin monitoring and control – like say, Health Canada?
No more almonds for Julia… whose advice requires a very, very large halite crystal
http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/aflatoxin.php
Julia said, “Hello Skeptics, We welcome your skepticism, and would hope that the same skepticism extends to the medical practices, corporations, and environment-destroying industries that are causing so much harm.”
Gee, based on the reports from the expo, she couldn’t even get 6 words out without them being shown to be a lie, or at least, incorrect. Clearly, “your skepticism” was not “welcome”. Maybe she was just here to perform a threat assessment on the Skeptic North folks, in oder to prepare the defences.
And she says:
“Hello Skeptics, we welcome your skepticism….”
and
“Hey guys, I’m all for a healthy dose of skepticism.”
and
“Wow, this is terrific! Great debate on all things natural and holistic. I love it.”
So, do think Ms. Woodford, who has now shown her true fascistic colours at the Expo, (thanks Mitchell and Steve for your reports) will return to defend her actions? Her blatant hpyocrisy and outright dishonesty are pretty darned eye opening.
Calling Ms. Woodford; Ms. Woodford where are you?
Hmm. Just a wee heads up to the site operators: There seems to be something a bit skew-whiffy about the site. I just posted a note after Dianne Sousa’a November 30, 9:12 am note to Jay, but my post popped in 8 posts before that right after Stephen MacDougall’s November 26 post.
Most odd.
to Steve
Chinesse herbalist use those…please get your modalities straight.
as for the pharma drugs you are on, please get your father on CO Q10 as a bata blocker stops the production in the body and your father needs it…..have you ever heard of anyone dying from taking rosemary, sage, Vit D any other herbs…I think not, but can you say the same from a phama drug…i think so..what do you really know about the long term effects of the meds you are on?
and try turmeric for your inflammation..it’s safe and does not store in your liver, it naturally brings down inflammation…be smart not skeptic…and I do fight my own battles for my beleifs
and lets hope it will bring healther food to your kids in school and they may not need YOUR drugs
It’s funny how so many herbal and other alternative remedies have no bad effects. It’s almost as if they have no effects at all. Well, except for enriching the purveyors…
When it comes to treating asthma or hypertension I would far rather take the advice of a trained medical professional that a glib, self-proclaimed expert in a herbs & magic potions store. I have a number of family members and friends in the medical profession and I don’t know a single doctor who does not advocate exercise, fresh fruit & vegetables and vitamin supplements when required.
I get so sick and tired of hearing the alt-med catch-cry “Doctors only treat symptoms”. Every doctor I know of does his best to advise people how to lead healthy lives and avoid habits that lead to preventable illnesses. While I’m sure there probably are some lazy individuals who just keep prescribing what ever keeps the patient happy I’ve never met one. On the other hand it’s not uncommon to hear CAM proponents (with little or no medical training) advising people that prescribed medication or treatment is not necessary or is harmful.
Christine,
Actually the two animal parts mentioned by Steve are both used in homeopathic remedies (Oscillococcinum and Vagininum). And in reference to your comment “…have you ever heard of anyone dying from taking rosemary, sage, Vit D any other herbs…I think not”, have you ever heard of Ephedra? Or just Googled something like “dangers of herbal supplements”? You might come across pages like this:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=herbal-supplement-dangers
http://whatstheharm.net/herbalremedies.html
Christine,
You said “I fight my own battles for my beliefs”. Belief is clearly all you have. In contrast, skeptics opt to fight battles (to use your words) for reality. You certainly don’t provide any evidence for the health advice you give to Steve. Are you qualified to give this advice? Are you prepared to take responsibility for it if someone else takes this advice and is harmed by it?
I don’t think you are because if you were, you wouldn’t play so fast and loose with peoples health. I stand by what I say right or wrong. I take care to ensure that my claims are correct. Do you?
Playing fast and loose is exactly what you’re doing. There is no wiggle room here for you. You claim to be protecting children by defending your beliefs. I suggest to you that you are exposing them to harm. You have a right to make health choices for your children but you cannot make any choice you want. Please refer to your own provinces child protection laws for details. Children have a right to appropriate medical care. Anything less is neglect.
Christine;
Vitamin D overdose can cause renal failure… guess that’s not a big deal though. Who needs kidneys?
Large amounts of rosemary can apparently trigger seizures, coma, and other possibly harmful problems. Warnings to not ingest much rosemary when pregnant or breatfeeding… but it’s safe enough for you?
Sage oil can apparently cause seizures and death…
Internet herbalists are all over the place on what Turmeric does and doesn’t do, but they all seem to agree that you shouldn’t use it if you have heart or gastrointestinal issues.
But all of those risks are limited and affect a small subset of those taking them, right? Safe isn’t an absolute… things are safe ENOUGH that they’re worth taking, if you know the risks.
Be smart, ask questions. That’s what being a skeptic is.
And what happens when you ask an MD questions regarding the harmful effects of what they are perscribing you or your child/grandmother/greatgrandmother etc.., for proof of it’s curing ability and his/her source of info. When you present your MD with studies from prestigious Harvard Medical Studies that completely detail absolute contrary info on the MD’s diagnoses and treatment? They walk away never to be seen again. They do not read the monthly updated info in the medical journals intended to keep them up to date at the very least. NONE OF THEM READ ANY OF IT. YOU DIE. Fuckin burns from ear candles!! Do you people ever get laid? I hope you people wake up. Read the studies, the real ones not the fudged ones that make drug companies rich and gov’s prosper from their tax revenue.
@ Jay:
Well, as a matter of fact, I recently saw an MD and asked her what the effects of my prescriptions might be. And she told me everything, and warned me to also speak to a pharmacist. Which I did.
If you have evidence to the contrary, present it. Don’t yell at anyone for not doing the homework to make YOUR argument. We present our evidence quite clearly. To quote another Skeptic North author, “Evidence, or GTFO.”
Regarding ear candling, 3rd degree burns is a pretty severe risk. So is deafness and death by smoke inhalation. I present my evidence. I’m sure you wouldn’t think it was so trivial if you or a loved one suffered burns. That’s why it’s illegal in Canada. That’s why I don’t chose which laws to obey and which ones to break.
Jay,
Do you really want to claim here that you showed a doctor a study and they disappeared into the nothing? Surely you don’t want people to think you’re ridiculous.
If you are skpetical of doctors and how they do things, how do you judge any alternative medical practitioner you come across? How do you judge between doctors? At the very least you are willing to concede that science done properly is valuable – otherwise why draw on Harvard’s prestige? Now that we can agree on that, I challenge you to think about what criteria you use to judge what good science is and isn’t.
I don’t think you understand the criteria skpetics use and I’ll guess that it is this that has prompted your negative reaction.
Also, I think it’s important you recognize that taxes are collected on all sorts of products – including natural health products. This includes a homeopathic dilutions of European Rabbit vagina.